Post edited 4:50 pm – February 7, 2012 by Ramsey Nimer
I can't believe there isn't more discussion here after Nick was cheated, yet again, in a crappy decision. It is amazing that someone like Condit, who has been on a tear and labels himself a fighter and a warrior would insult the fans by implementing a Greg Jackson concocted gameplan of point scoring over fighting. The fact that the scoring was all over the place is indicative of the fight being slow and fairly close. The only reason it was close was the refusal of one of the competitors from engaging. I understand the argument of a gameplan and being tactical. I don't think anyone should "have to" stand and bang or go into someone's guard just for the sake of the fans. I mean, I love Machida and his style is similar in principle to what Condit did tonight. The only difference is that Machida has never turned his back on his opponent and actually ran away. He uses his karate honed skills and fights consistently the same way.
I had Nick up with the first and second, as did Dana White. Cecil Peoples had Nick only up on the 3rd round. Neither of them gave Nick the 5th which Nick took down Condit, got his back and almost submitted him. I can't for the life of me rationalize this. And now we have Condit's mgmt. stating that they don't want a rematch. Go figure. I used to be so impressed with Jackson and the way that the entire camp approached fighting. However, with GSP, Condit, Guida and so many others doing whatever it takes to win is crap.
I have heard comparisions between Jackson and fighters using the rules to win and in the NFL in which the rules are consistently used to win no matter how it looks. The difference is that this sport is based in combat. The great strides that MMA has taken are based on fighters that leave it all in the cage seeking to finish the other. BJ's recent complaints notwithstanding, he knew he was losing the fight with Nick. No one can deny that BJ is a Warrior. He kept looking to finish and tried to keep fighting. When he did get into deep trouble, he got out of there by running so he could reset. I think this is understandable and smart. The difference between Condit and BJ is that BJ knew he was losing and running was not a part of his gameplan. Condit's entire gameplan was based upon disengaging and running.
I hope Nick doesn't retire. I think this would deprive TRUE warriors a symbol of motivation.
Nick, have heart brother. Your fans believe in you and your team.
3:27 pm February 8, 2012
KDG
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Fightmetric had Condit winning the fight by a large margin with many more significant strikes. Just because Condit was moving backwards, doesn't mean he was landing on Diaz.
Nicks face was 10X more beat up than Condit's, and that doesn't happen by not getting hit. Nick had no answer for a counterstriker, and should have taken him down every round if he wanted to finish the fight.
I realize I will be scolded for having an opinion that is against one of your fighters, but outside of your world, most people that I know who watched the fight and know what they are talking about had Condit winning 4 rounds, 3 of them fairly easily. Nick needs to learn how to accept a loss and build from it. Nick and Caesar complaining to national media about a loss that was not really controversial at all, does nothing but make themselves feel better. They came into the fight with a very predictable gameplan, and they lost a chess match to Jackson… so what? Move on and be a better fighter and stop screaming for attention by claiming after every fight you are done with MMA.
7:43 pm February 8, 2012
Badchicken
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Your post is filled with so much fail I don't know where to start. Number 1: Fightmetric counted the pathetic leg kicks as significant strikes…they weren't. Number 2: Nick's face had some scrapes, scrapes caused by glancing blows, which by my count just over 70% of Condit's strikes were. Chess match? Really? Is that what you paid to see, you tool? I came to see a fucking fight. Condit did nothing but back-pedal and run through most of the 25 minute match. I counted 4 different occasions where Condit turned his back on Diaz, hunched forward and did a full-out run. And save the bullshit about "gameplan" and "strategy" for strangers, okay fucktard? Carlos put on a shameful, disgraceful performance that makes me wonder how the term "warrior" is defined at Jackson's camp.
Not only does Diaz have the obvious truth on his side, the opinion of the majority of coaches and actual fighters all agree Nick won. There hasn't been this much outrage over an obvious robbery since Nam Phan and that other guy.
You sir, are an idiot obvious 209 hater who should stop watching MMA.
8:10 pm February 8, 2012
Ramsey Nimer
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Flaming isn't the way I work buddy. I posted to generate a discussion. I saw the fight metric thing as well, and your correct in what you posted. I agree that I'm a bit partisan because I am a huge fan of Nick. With that being said, I too have spoken to alot of people as well. I've heard both sides but more were with Diaz. I'm not a training partner for Diaz nor do I go to this gym. Actually, I'm an MMA trainer on the other side of the country in NC. My philosophy is heavily influenced by my exposure to Army Combatives during my active duty time. The primary difference between both of these ideologies is in how the "sport" is viewed. I feel that this is the only outlet in a sportive setting that is, inherently, combat based. Others see it as just another sport. Both are valid, but different. During MMA's inception, the point was to take away the rules and simply see who would win. Changes had to be implemented to further the sport and at times to simply survive. However, I strongly disagree with anyone that competes under the auspices of fighting to outscore. Everyone should try to finish. No matter what your base is, if your up on points, or what the case may be.
One of the reasons that Nick has such a loyal following is because he is perennially haunted by "unjust" losses. Now, I put unjust in quotations for posterity so don't jump on the band wagon of labeling me a fool. Many of his losses were questionable. For example, Joe Riggs, Karo, and Sherk. Some were valid like Diego and Hironaka. And I would like to point out that some of the Athletic Commission, do indeed, hate Nick. I will simply point to the fact that his win over Gomi was reversed due to marijuana yet Diego was simply suspended. In regards to Nick being more beat up, this rule could be applied to a myriad of his previous fights with him still coming up with a loss. Consistency is key to MMA and it will mitigate many of the controversial decisions affecting MMA as a whole.
One more point then I will wind this long-winded post down. Can you truly say that you felt that Condit won the 1st, 2nd and the 5th? Joe Rogan has posted that after he watched at home he firmly believes that Nick won. Two of the judges gave Nick the 3rd round and not even the 5th. A takedown is viewed very highly in the UFC, hence several of Nicks losses previously. Now that Nick earns a takedown and gets dominant, searching for the sub, somehow it isn't enough. I respect everyone's opinion, either way. It was a close match. Now that reports are claiming that a rematch is possible, we will see.
8:17 pm February 8, 2012
Ramsey Nimer
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Badchicken said:
Your post is filled with so much fail I don't know where to start. Number 1: Fightmetric counted the pathetic leg kicks as significant strikes…they weren't. Number 2: Nick's face had some scrapes, scrapes caused by glancing blows, which by my count just over 70% of Condit's strikes were. Chess match? Really? Is that what you paid to see, you tool? I came to see a fucking fight. Condit did nothing but back-pedal and run through most of the 25 minute match. I counted 4 different occasions where Condit turned his back on Diaz, hunched forward and did a full-out run. And save the bullshit about "gameplan" and "strategy" for strangers, okay fucktard? Carlos put on a shameful, disgraceful performance that makes me wonder how the term "warrior" is defined at Jackson's camp.
Not only does Diaz have the obvious truth on his side, the opinion of the majority of coaches and actual fighters all agree Nick won. There hasn't been this much outrage over an obvious robbery since Nam Phan and that other guy.
You sir, are an idiot obvious 209 hater who should stop watching MMA.
Ouch Bad Chicken. I was going for the calm, non-confrontational route. However, I do agree. One of the bigger controversies is the fact that Condit is a finisher. He is tough and competitive. The problem is the drastic change of tactics he used to get a "point" driven victory. (not that I agree with the win) And yes, he did Kalib Starnes it 4 times. Hard fight to watch. Similar to others not engaging Anderson Silva. Yet at least their gameplan was based on a takedown. Condit's was based on not engaging and getting out of the engagement however he could.
I would also say that some of the leg kicks were significant. They did do the job of slowing Nick down. Now, he manned up and pushed the pace in the 5th but they did deserve to be scored. A leg kick sucks!
9:18 pm February 8, 2012
Glamdring
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I thought the guy with the most beat up face is the loser?
Yes, I train..
9:22 pm February 8, 2012
Glamdring
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P.S. be careful KDG, they will ban you for not toeing the company line…I've seen it happen….
Yes, I train..
10:11 pm February 8, 2012
KDG
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Post edited 11:19 pm – February 8, 2012 by KDG
Edit: Nevermind… badchicken is why I will not waste my time on this site. Keep on believing that everyone is against Nick, and the establishment is trying to hold him down. How much money did he walk away from by no-showing to the press conferences with GSP?
It's almost a case of self sabotage. Nick has all the ability to be the top star in MMA. It's almost like he doesn't want to deal with the pressure that would come with the status. If Nick did all of the media stuff that guys like GSP do, and just pissed clean, he's a mega star.
I think the guy is just much happier in Lodi at his school and doing Xterra events. Hey if that's what he wants, more power to him.
12:57 am February 10, 2012
pbens21
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People need to stfu when it comes to Condit "outstriking" Diaz. He landed a shit load of leg kiks with his feet, anyone thats trained in any kind of muay thai or kickboxing discipline know you land effective kicks with your shin not your foot or toes. Condit landed 2 effective strong strikes all fight which was a nice headkick punch combination. Anyone notice that thats the only HL they could find of Condits out of 25 minutes of action? Its a matter of politics and nothing more. MMA is the shit but the UFC is quickly becoming another watered down "lets all be nice and shake hands and fondel Dana's nuts" organization.
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